Quite often I’m asked what’s the best format to work with in Vegas Pro when you need to collaborate with Final Cut Pro editors on a Mac. The best codec I have found is the free Avid DNxHD QuickTime codec. The reason I use this codec in addition to it’s superior quality for mastering, is because it doesn’t suffer from the gamma shifts that some other PC codecs have when transferred to the Mac. With Avid DNxHD, you get the gamma levels you expect, and the quality you need.
Avid DNxHD can be downloaded free from Avid at this link: [Avid QuickTime Codecs LE 2.6.0] Once you have downloaded the installer you must run it to install the codecs. Make sure that Vegas Pro is not running when you perform the installation. Next you’ll need to create a render template in order to use it for output. This tutorial will show you how to create an Avid DNxHD template for rendering.
Important Note: Throughout this tutorial I assume your project is NTSC HD which is 1920×1080 @ 29.970fps. If your project is different, select a different frame size and frame rate when you create your template to match your desired output format.
Follow these steps after you have installed the free Avid DNxHD QuickTime codec:
- Start by bringing up the Render As Window in Vegas Pro using: File | Render As… and select QuickTime 7 (*.mov) as the Output Format and 3 Mbps Video as the starting Template.
- This template is just a starting point and we will need to modify it to match our HD project properties so press the Customize Template… button to open the Custom Settings window.
- In the Custom Settings window, (1) select High Definition (1920×1080) as the Frame size, (2) select 29.970000 as the Frame rate, (3) select Upper filed first as the Field order, and (4) select Avid DNxHD Codec as the Video format. Finally (5) press the Configure… button to set the Avid DNxHD codec settings. It’s important to point out that if you want you render to be progressive, 24p, or a different dimension, then select those settings instead.
- In the Avid DNxHD Codec Configuration window, select 709 as the Color levels if you are working in HD. Select None as the alpha channel unless you need to preserve alpha transparency, but for normal video this is not needed. Finally under Resolutions select 1080i/59.94 DNxHD 145 8-bit or whatever setting matches the resolution and frame rate of your desired output. It is important that what you select here matches what you selected in the rest of the render template. Note that the 145 designates the data rate of 145 Mbps which will produce large files. Other data rates like 220 will produce absolutely huge files. Remember, if your camera acquired at 25Mbps you probably can select the lowest data rate of 36 and still have outstanding quality. Press OK to accept the changes.
- Click the Audio tab and make sure that your Sample rate is set to 48,000 and that the Audio format is Uncompressed
. - Finally, give your new template a descriptive name and save it for future use by pressing the Diskette button. Press OK to return to the Render As window.
- You now have a new template to render your project as Avid DNxHD QuickTime files.
Hopefully this will give you a good starting point for creating more templates of your own. It’s always best when creating templates to start with a template that’s close to what you want and then just change the video format to the codec you’d like to use.
Happy Editing,
Johnny “Roy” Rofrano
Good afternoon!
I have a problem, the Sony Vegas stops rendering in a random place in the video.
Can You help me?
Please post any problems on the Creative COW Sony Vegas Forum where I’m the moderator and I can help you better over there. Thanks.
Are these the same template settings as provided in the tutorial video found on youtube and vimeo for the “better” method?
I don’t know, I’ve never seen the YouTube video. These are my own personal templates that I use with Vegas Pro.
Hi John,
just wanted to say thankyou for posting this.
Best
Benjamin
Will the DNxHD codec work on all versions of the MAC OS and all versions of FCP? I’m working on project using Sony Vegas 12 with another editor using FCP. She tells me that my DNxHD files will not run on her system. She tells me that an Avid Codec will not work on FCP. I suspect she never loaded the DNxHD codec on her Mac.. But is it possible she did load the Codec and it just didn’t work on her system? I wish I could point her toward an APPLE forum or something that informs her that the Avid DNxHD will work on FCP.
I have FCP X on OS X Mountain Lion and the Avid DNxHD files from Vegas Pro 12.0 work fine. Tell her that she has to install the codec first. If you don’t install the Avid DNxHD codec it won’t work. It should also work in FCP 7 but she has to install the Avid codec. Hope this helps.
Im trying to render a 1920×816 file with Vegas Pro 12 in quicktime .mov, DNxHD format. I’ve downloaded and installed the latest DNxHD codec from Avid website.
What happens is after rendering the file plays back stretched as 1920×1080 and also Mediainfo reports it as 1920×1080 size.
Upon render I’ve chose custom frame size and set it at 1920×816 and these are the project settings as well. I’m a bit at a loss here so help would be appriciated.
AVID DNxHD does not support custom frame sizes. You need to use 1080, or 720, or 480, or 576. It will not accept 816 which is why it’s bumping it to 1080.
avid DNxHD 145 Codec appears to only have 1080i/59.94 – my original footage is 1080p/59.94
So this avid codec is obsolete? cannot match 1080p? thx
It’s not obsolete… it’s just behind the times. 😉 You’ll have to wait until AVID updates it’s codec to support 60p. I’m guessing that since AVID is primarily targeted at broadcast video and no one is broadcasting in 60p, it doesn’t see an immediate need to support this. This is just speculation on my part but 60p currently has limited delivery options.
How did you get the Avid DNxHD codec configuration window to display correctly? Mine crops off the drop-down menu to select the correct frame-rate and bit-rates. Also, the alpha radio buttons don’t work on mine. A lot of people are having the “broken window” problem. Please share your solution!
I wish I had something to tell you but I didn’t do anything special. The window does display all the way at the top of my screen but I was able to click a thin area of the menu bar and bring it down to where I could interact with it. I don’t know why Avid has this problem with their Windows software but I do agree it’s frustrating. 🙁
Hi,
sorry for my english, I ‘m french! I begin to edit my 7d footage with vegas pro 12. I would like to know how to create DNxHD files or Prores for the editing? I install the avid DNxHD codec and i try to use it Mpeg stream..But is it possible to do only with vegas pro? Is the Prores codec exist for PC or only for mac?
Thanks
The Avid DNxHD codec installs into QuickTime. You can create DNxHD files with any program that supports QuickTime rendering. MPEG Streamclip should work. There is no “official” ProRes codec for the PC. ProRes is a format that you can only buy with Final Cut Pro X or Apple Compressor so you’ll need to have a Mac with the appropriate software in order to create ProRes files. I have seen some PC software that claims to create ProRes files but they don’t work very well and I question their legality since they didn’t license it from Apple.
Ok John, Thank you
In fact i tried with MPEG stream , it works weel but I need to knwow more about all the resolutions i can choose! 8 or 10 bit
Thanks
I’m importing animations that were created with proprietary software (25 fps, 1920 x 1080) into Vegas 12 and wishing to output High Res.mov files (preferably using Quicktime Animation Codec). I’d like to import these files into Screenflow (Mac), rather than into Final Cut Pro. Two questions: 1) Must the Avid DNxHD codec be installed on my Mac as well as on my PC? 2) Screenflow indicates that it supports video and audio file formats and codecs that QuickTime Player can play back in Mac OS X10.6.x or higher, as listed at http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3775 The DNxHD codec is not on that list. Does this mean that Screenflow will not read/open my files and that I’m limited to using Final Cut Pro on the Mac as my non-linear editor?
Hi Stan, Yes the Avid DNxHD codec must be installed on your Mac in order for QuickTime to be able to use it. It should work with Screenflow once it’s installed. If you export your video out of Vegas Pro using the QuickTime Animation codec, you will not need to install anything on your Mac. These files will just play fine because the Animation codec is already included with QuickTime for Mac.
One further question: Which of the 2 DNxHD codecs do you recommend to use with Vegas: 2.3.7 (2011 release, which supports ProTools) or 2.3.9 (2013 release, which supports Media Composer and NewsCutter)…or does it make no difference?
I shouldn’t make a difference as long as you install the same version on both your PC and your Mac. I would use the latest one.
Thanks. That was really helpful, and prompt….and leads to the next question: Could you briefly compare the DNxHD Codec to other ‘high end’ codecs such as ProRes, Animation and Intermediate?
Given that I will now have the option of exporting animations from Vegas rendered in either Quicktime Animation Codec or in Avid DNxHD Codec (wrapped in Quicktime), how do the two codecs compare in terms of quality/file size? Which of the two would you use to generate .mov files which will then be edited in a Mac-based non-linear editor such as Screenflow? Obviously there are a multitude of editing scenarios, but let me give you one specific example: In Screenflow, I’ll be combining in one clip a talking head .mov (created with ProRes Codec) and an animation (created with either Quicktime Animation or Avid DNxHD Codecs) and in some cases will also be applying chromakey to the talking head and the animation prior to rendering. There will be multiple renders: medium res (for YouTube) and low res (for website) .mp4s (using x264 Codec) and WebMs (for website).
Avid DNxHD is a digital intermediary codec just like Apple ProRes. The difference is that the Avid codec is available on both the PC and the Mac while ProRes is only “officially” available on the Mac. (yes I know some companies have reversed engineered it on the PC but these are not “licensed” by Apple and I wouldn’t use them for professional work) This makes Avid DNxHD a good codec for video that needs to be worked on across a PC and a Mac. QuickTime Animation is designed for animation and has support for an Alpha Channel which is what you are going to want for overlays. I would use QuickTime Animation for any graphics or other work that requires the alpha channel be preserved. I would use Avid DNxHD for everything else that has to go from PC to Mac. I would use ProRes if my work was originating on a Mac.
Thank you. You can’t believe how helpful that is! The best nugget of video encoding gold I’ve received in 4 years.
One final comment: I just rendered the identical file in Sony Vegas using Quicktime Animation Codec and DNxHD wrapped in Quicktime, to output 1080p .mov files.
The Animation .mov is 278 MB. The DNxHD .mov is 475 MB. Is that to be expected? Certainly Avid leads one to believe that the DNxHD Codec is lean and mean.
John: Because of the file size discrepancies between Animation and DNxHD codecs sited above, I’ve reverted to the QT Animation codec, but am still continuing to look for an alternate codec. Currently, a .wmv file is increased in size by 22 times when transcoded to a .mov with QT Animation codec in Vegas. I’m seeking an editing codec which will produce smaller file sizes than QT Animation. Now, I linked through to your post here from http://blogs.telestream.net/screenflow/2012/04/save-yourself-frustration-use-editing-formats-when-editing/. In the Telestream article, “lossless x264” is cited as an editing format. Is there such a thing? I have Squeeze 9 for PC, but I couldn’t find any lossless x264 templates in Sorenson Squeeze or in their Preset Exchange. Sorenson denies that there is “lossless x264” or anything close. Certainly, any settings I’ve tried with x264 produce tremendous compression.
Over the weekend I did more research on ‘x264 lossless’ and found both a command line instruction (which I don’t know how to use) and a “quality” setting or slider (depending on the version of x264), which is probably the “lossless” setting. The result:
Transcodes from a 13.7 MB .wmv file:
1. using Apple QT Animation in Vegas to create a QT .mov file: 289.1 MB
2. using Apple QT Animation in Squeeze on PC to create a QT .mov file: 260 MB
3. using x264 in Squeeze on PC to create a ‘lossless’ .mov file: 20.5 MB
4. using x264 in Squeeze on PC to create a ‘lossless’ .mp4 file: 39.2 MB
Questions: Why are the QT Animation files so large? Technically, what is the Animation codec doing to the already lossy (compressed) .wmv file? What is the x264 codec doing to the .wmv file? Would you consider that the 20.5 MB x264 .mov or the 39.2 MB x264 .mp4 file is actually “lossless” or does the transcode produce every more “lossiness” even though the file size is larger than the original .wmv?
I see no difference in either audio or visual quality when importing these 4 (non-complex) files into Screenflow and either viewing them in the editor or exporting for YouTube. I’ll repeat the process for some “complex” .wmv files with challenging animation aspects and report back; however, it would be really helpful to understand from the theoretical as well as from the practical aspect, how to obtain the high quality transcodes with reasonable (if not the smallest) files sizes.
The Animation codec can be set to be lossy or lossless. Since Vegas Pro doesn’t give you access to the quality setting, I assume it’s using 100% which is lossless and lossless codecs always produce larger files because they don’t throw any information away.
Codecs like Motion-JPEG and Photo-JPEG produce much smaller files because they are lossy but also because they are designed for video not animation. You might want to use Photo-JPEG if you’re looking for smaller file sizes. Photo-JPEG is what a lot of Stock Footage houses use to deliver their footage. It is a very high quality codec with good compression.
Hi John,. Excellent and informative. Thanks.
I shoot using a Panasonic AF101 and a GH2 and I’m editing in Vegas Pro 12/After Effects.
I am about to buy an external recorder/monitor combo and I am looking at either the Convergent Designs Odyssey 7 or the Atomos Samurai Blade. Both devices record either to DNxHD (or ProRes, which I do not need). One concern I have is that DNxHD does not support an alpha channel – have I understood that correctly? If that is the case, does it mean that I can’t use that codec if I am, for example, keying out a greenscreen, or have I got it all wrong?
Hi Ian, It’s not that DNxHD doesn’t support an alpha channel, it’s that Avid handles alpha channels differently than any other NLE in the industry so if you are not editing with an Avid NLE, then you can’t use the alpha channel in the DNxHD codec. That does not mean that you can’t use the DNxHD footage for keying. It simply means that it won’t save the alpha channel in a way that you can use. If you need an alpha channel saved to your footage just use QuickTime PNG or QuickTime Animation codec which will save the footage with it’s alpha channel intact. If all you are doing is keying and compositing in Vegas Pro, then DNxHD will be fine. Hope that helps.
Perfect answer! I was worried that I’d have to go through some extra hoops. Many thanks John.
You’re welcome Ian. Glad I could help.
I installed the DNxHD codec and it worked great in Vegas 12 for a few renders. I stopped a render part way thru and now I can’t get Vegas to render using the codec. It renders in all other formats. Any Suggestions?
Thanks,
Brett
When you stop a QuickTime render it leaves a temporary file on the disk but the file is locked and future attempts to render the same file will fail. You need to exit Vegas Pro, delete the temporary file (which will have a file name like “yourfilename.mov.tmp”), and then try the render again.
Vegas seems to just stop afer a few percentages when creating a .mov in any codec now
The DNxHD codec works fine when exporting from Premiere 6.
Great tutorial but I wonder why no one mentions that Sony Vegas, in principle, has problems handling DNxHD and ProRes. The problem is that Sony Vegas (10, 11 and apparently 12) is reliant on a 32bit (not 64bit) based plug-in FileIOSurrogate.exe. If you have a longer project with many clips, the FileIOSurrogate process eats up memory and crashes your system. The problem is known for many years but apparently is not addressed by Sony Vegas. This makes Sony Vegas almost unusable for round trips to other programs relying on DNxHD or ProRes for longer projects.
In my case, I have a film that is 30 min long and the average cut is 5 sec, so I ended up with 360 DNxHD clips that I had to send for color corrections. The problem is that I can not even import back that many DNxHD clips in a Sony Vegas 11 (built 701) project. It always crashes. I experimented with shorter projects and in my case the limit is around 150 clips before the crashes start to occur. Apparently, Sony Vegas likes MP4, AVCHD, and MPEG-2 but QuickTime ProRes or DNxHD are pushed through the bottleneck of FileIOSurrogate that makes this NLE system unusable for projects longer than 15 min. (By the way, I tried different versions of QT from 7.7.1 to 7.7.5 with the same results).
John, do you have any suggestions or workarounds on this issue? Thanks.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-happens-vegas/515707-vegas-pro-12-apple-prores422-cinemadng-raw.html#post1789783
Actually, I’ve heard a lot of people mention this on various fora. It’s well documented that you can’t have too many QuickTime files in a Vegas Pro project because it has a limit due to it’s 32-bit processing. I don’t know of any workaround other than transcoding the files to a more Vegas friendly format like Sony MXF. I’m not sure how well Avid DNxHD works with Avid Media Composer on a PC either but a quick scan of their forums reveals lots of problems with QuickTime on a PC for them as well.
You have to ask yourself why you are editing QuickTime files, which is the native container for Mac, on a PC? If you need to collaborate with other Mac editors then maybe it would be easier to buy a Mac and use Final Cut Pro X. I have both a Mac Pro and a PC and I edit with Vegas Pro and Final Cut Pro X every week. It’s a matter of using the right tool for the job. I don’t try and make one work with the other because they never will. My philosophy is, you are either on an independent project and get to pick your own tools, or you are working with a community of editors and need to be willing to learn the tools that the community uses. IMHO, it is a waste of time to try and get “your” tool to work with “their” tool. It’s just a tool.
Hi John! Could you please tell if it’s possible to force this codec to conform the material during rendering in Vegas?
I mean I have video in 24 fps, export it to 25 fps and their duration stays the same, so I think it interpolates and I need it to conform, to keep the number of frames so the new video would be shorter in duration.
Is it possible? Thank you!
If you want to change the frame rate by altering the rate at which frames are consumed thus changing the length, then you need to right-click on every event, open the Properties and select Disable Resample so that Vegas Pro will just use the existing frames and not synthesize new ones to maintain the frame rate.
Had to use the Adobe “interpret as” functions but thanks for getting back! Your tutorials helped out two times already (the second is multichannel audio), thank you for sharing your experience! Good luck on your projects!
Hi John!
Thanks for all of your help! It really is appreciated. I have installed quicktime and the DNxHD codecs. But for some reason *.mov is still not an option in my Vegas 12 render window. Do you know why this might be?
Many thanks,
Josh
Hi Josh, Wow I have no idea. Maybe you just need to reboot but QuickTime MOV should be an option even if QuickTime is not installed. It won’t work until you install QuickTime but the option is always there.
John, thank you for making this tutorial. It was a lifesaver!
You’re welcome Kennis. I’m glad you found it useful.
Hello John,
I followed the instructions to render to mov and they worked great! The only thing is that the file is huge! 25 GB. I am wondering if that is normal of I did something wrong.
It is a 30 min video file. I put subtitles on it and rendered it to mov.
Thank you
With great quality comes great file sizes. 😉 You didn’t do anything wrong. Avid DNxHD is a Digital Intermediary and as such, is near lossless and uses a very high bitrate to retain the quality. You can reduce the file size using different bit rates but they are all still very high and produce large files.